tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2514352312859447561.post8863207627959217659..comments2024-01-30T03:30:45.740-05:00Comments on Bad Data, Bad!: STEM and Title IX, stop me before my head explodesbs kinghttp://www.blogger.com/profile/02871717971078952304noreply@blogger.comBlogger12125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2514352312859447561.post-80431238790982104692013-12-29T10:03:50.078-05:002013-12-29T10:03:50.078-05:00OK I just realized you quoted Penelope Trunk and l...OK I just realized you quoted Penelope Trunk and lost all respect right there. While she may make a good point in that particular article, this is the same blogger that tells women to stay in abusive relationships and enter an MBA program for the sole purpose of meeting a rich husband. She generally discourages women from pursuing careers, so it makes sense she would defend those who don't do tech start-ups. Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2514352312859447561.post-32051145592010166072013-12-29T08:50:45.637-05:002013-12-29T08:50:45.637-05:00So I am a 'woman-in-STEM' (BSc in molecula...So I am a 'woman-in-STEM' (BSc in molecular genetics) who has advocated for women in STEM - is that a bad thing? I wasn't aware of the whole Title IX thing and am in agreement with a lot of your points in this article. However, I do like the idea of supporting female representation in scientific research - a realm where we still are underrepresented. It doesn't mean I think the men are purposely repressing the women, but in general society, sexism still exists and there are a lot of pressures discouraging women from pursuing lucrative fields in STEM. <br /><br />I do notice, though, that more women are incidentally choosing to study STEM, just because more women are entering higher education. Even in the engineering fields. Men still dominate mechanical and electrical engineering, but I see a lot of women studying civil and materials engineering sciences. So I agree that women's rights activists can relax on the women-in-STEM issue - we have the opportunity, we just have to take it. Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2514352312859447561.post-52040637769628705552013-03-25T06:21:21.320-04:002013-03-25T06:21:21.320-04:00Yeah, my brother called me after I put this up and...Yeah, my brother called me after I put this up and said the same thing. I'll cop to some self righteous bluster for sure.<br /><br />To be clear though, I don't take issue with anyone in social science or liberal arts who does their thing. Lots of wonderful stuff comes out of that (my MS is in psych after all). My specific issue here was those who do those majors and then attempt to pontificate and/or write policy for those in other majors with the "we know best" attitude. At the time I was writing this, I read quite a few articles by non-engineers talking about how they knew exactly what was wrong with engineering. That got me a little defensive (clearly), as I would never presume to strut in to a sociology class and tell them what was wrong with them.<br /><br />Hope that clarifies things!bs kinghttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02871717971078952304noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2514352312859447561.post-51540106149888267842013-03-01T16:54:37.839-05:002013-03-01T16:54:37.839-05:00I agree that a lot of STEM promotion by politician...I agree that a lot of STEM promotion by politicians and political rhetoric surrounding STEM education is meaningless propaganda. I like science as much as the next science-y person (I have a B.S. in Biology and B.A. in Political Science), but why would they constantly harp on the need for scientists while cutting funding for scientific research? <br /><br />But if I must me honest, you sound obnoxiously full of yourself. A lot of social science/liberal arts majors actually have meaningful career goals, even if they are not STEM-oriented and they get to party more while achieving them (I honestly don't blame them). Many of them tend to be very socially conscious and just look for ways to give back to the community. I worked at a medical research lab for 3 years in college and would kind of die on the inside every time someone in my lab scoffed at social science majors being useless. Seriously, egotism doesn't contribute to any field. Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2514352312859447561.post-81043282806637914162012-07-19T21:12:37.657-04:002012-07-19T21:12:37.657-04:00The comparison to language education is a good one...The comparison to language education is a good one...I had been trying to think of other fields that were similarly black and white.<br /><br />As for getting a STEM degree...do it! They're fun!bs kinghttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02871717971078952304noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2514352312859447561.post-24281694642353137472012-07-18T11:11:30.986-04:002012-07-18T11:11:30.986-04:00I am not an engineer and never have been. Nor have...I am not an engineer and never have been. Nor have I played on on TV. In fact, I graduated with a degree in communication (A B.S. in comunication in fact. Doesn't that make sense?). Not even an English degree -- which might be considered to have some historical academic basis to ground it. <br /><br />As I have gotten older, my appreciation for those in the STEM fields has grown exponentially. I have moved from being grateful for engineers and accountant (for they do things I am ill suited for) to viewing them as heroes and wishing I could be one. <br /><br />The closest I came to such academic rigor was in the study of languages. When learning ancient greek, for instance, there is really no fudging it. When the Professor calls on you to read and translate, you either know it you don't. If you haven't done the work, no amount of BS can save you there. <br /><br />I received a BS because I did take some lower level science courses as part of my degree -- not the simplified ones for non-majors, but the intro courses for majors. There was a definite difference in the teaching approach. As you say -- very cut and dried. I loved it. <br /><br />It is in my mind that someday I may return for some kind of STEM degree. It will happen when I am wealthy and old and I will do it just for the challenge. I would certainly have to work hard to accomplish something at which I am not naturally adept. But I am more capable nowadays of seeing the puzzle pieces and I think more capable of learning to fill in my weaknesses. It would be fun to see if I could pull it off. <br /><br />Nice post. Thanks.Dubbahdeehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00075702513873912334noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2514352312859447561.post-33819755725797002322012-07-17T11:21:24.196-04:002012-07-17T11:21:24.196-04:00Studying the effects on professionals in the field...Studying the effects on professionals in the field might be good.<br /><br />I've found that in my field (engineering departments among Automotive suppliers), the ratio is approximately 9 males to 1 female. The women are usually smart and capable; the ones who survived the Math-Science-Gauntlet in college.<br /><br />It has an effect on the workplace environment; I doubt that the effect can be described as entirely-bad or entirely-good. <br /><br />Interestingly, the HR office is much closer to 1:1 ratio. This reflects the pool of available hires in that field, relative to the pool of available hires in engineering.karrdehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00205160745963596856noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2514352312859447561.post-62820514067635093772012-07-16T18:24:14.718-04:002012-07-16T18:24:14.718-04:00You are correctly intuiting that the goal is not f...You are correctly intuiting that the goal is not for more females to qualify for STEM degrees, but for more of them to receive them.<br /><br />Best of all would be a slight increase in granted degrees, because then the industry of whining about it could go on endlessly.Assistant Village Idiothttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01978011985085795099noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2514352312859447561.post-17071328454901164112012-07-16T15:51:23.514-04:002012-07-16T15:51:23.514-04:00That's a good distinction to make...I was thin...That's a good distinction to make...I was thinking only of the "you lock in for four years" aspect. Of course people can choose this at any point. I know nearly 140 people transferred out of my major, and I can only recall 2 transferring in....but we did have several non-18 year olds show up at various points. They did much better too.<br /><br />As for your Ed professor...she either had low SAT scores or some serious Daddy issues she was crying out for help on. <br /><br />If you take my siblings, sibs in law, parents and spouse, you have 8 people, 4 male, 4 female. All 4 females have science/math heavy undergrad degrees (2 nursing, 1 math ed, one engineer). Only 1 of the men does (2 communications degrees, 1 philosophy, and 1 science ed). By your profs logic, this means men are discriminated against.bs kinghttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02871717971078952304noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2514352312859447561.post-49711620114025016742012-07-16T15:43:18.895-04:002012-07-16T15:43:18.895-04:00Alright...I projected there. I did love physics a...Alright...I projected there. I did love physics and the programming, but I would have loved someone to spice up fluid mechanics a bit.<br /><br />The social engineer in me would love to see how this would work if applied to all degrees that went outside a 30/70 or 70/30 breakdown, actually. Then I'd like to see a ten review regarding the impact on practicing professionals.bs kinghttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02871717971078952304noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2514352312859447561.post-26377743976957702052012-07-16T15:35:04.841-04:002012-07-16T15:35:04.841-04:005.STEM fields are something you have to know you w...<i> 5.STEM fields are something you have to know you want to enter immediately, or you've missed the boat.</i><br /><br />What is true: STEM programs are not something to drop in on- oh I might want to do this. No, you have to WANT to do it, because it demands more time than most fields and there are fewer "electives." You need tunnel vision to succeed in STEM programs.<br /><br />What is not true: that if you do not select STEM when you are 18, fuggedaboutit. I got my engineering degree 9 years after graduating from high school. My sister got her engineering degree 13! years after graduating from high school. <br /><br />In my second-and short- career as a math teacher, I took some Education courses. One memorable class was when an Ed prof was trying to argue that there was a bias channeling females away from STEM courses. Her testimony:<br /><b>My father was a physician. My brother is a Physician. And here I am, in Education!</b><br /><br />What are the odds that twit had SATs above 1100?<br /><br />My sister's best friend in high school went into Ed Psych. Her father was an MD. Yes, this proves that females are channeled away from STEM courses. Except for this fact: her mother was also an MD.Gringonoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2514352312859447561.post-65954913181752385742012-07-16T14:06:16.858-04:002012-07-16T14:06:16.858-04:00No one enjoys the first two years of an engineerin...<i>No one enjoys the first two years of an engineering degree....they survive them.</i><br /><br />Well, I could claim to be the exception to that...I did enjoy many parts of the Engineering curriculum. But I was not exactly a typical student, even at a Tech-school.<br /><br />I would argue that using Title IX to make college programs more friendly to both genders should be applied across the board, or not at all. Don't discuss the STEM programs; apply Title IX to all Colleges at a University. For example, why should the Education department be lopsidedly female?<br /><br />Next, we apply a similar rule to provide racial-balance to college sports, so that the basketball team isn't be dominated by dark-skinned minority students, while the hockey team isn't dominated by white-skinned students from Northern States.<br /><br />I mean, if we're going to force colleges to bend their admission rules to change the results, we shouldn't do things by half-measures. We should go all the way.<br /><br />And then apply the same rules to hiring of teachers in Elementary and Secondary Ed...karrdehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00205160745963596856noreply@blogger.com